My first bad experience with PayPal and Ebay was about 2000 or 2001. I was building my own PC when I went back to grad school (and money was tighter than time) and needed to buy an operating system. I had a copy of Windows XP that someone had loaned me, but I wanted to buy an official copy (instead of using the license number from a program that my friend was no longer using since he moved on to another OS). So I bought one on eBay, paid by PayPal, and awaited my disc. When it arrived, the Windows XP disc worked, but it was obviously a copy (on a CD-R). I protested and asked for a refund. The seller refused, PayPal refused and eBay all refused, even when I pointed out the seller did not keep his word to send an “authentic, official version of Windows XP.” Both eBay and PayPal pretty much replied “Buyer Beware” and refused to help. I also reported the seller to Microsoft and never heard back from them. So I was out some cash for a useless product (useless to me, I refused to install a pirated OS on my system and ended up throwing the disc in the trash after keeping it for years in case Microsoft wanted to go after the pirate).
After a bit, I decided to continue using eBay and PayPal. They were still useful services even though they act like typical monopolies. After several years of selling items on Ebay. I had developed an excellent rating on eBay. Then in 2004 or so I sold something on eBay that was clearly listed as used. The buyer was upset (the first upset buyer that I had in my years on eBay). She was upset that the product was used and threatened to sue me if I did not take it back and give her a full refund. I had already spent the money she had paid, but if she had approached me nicely and said she was disappointed with the unit, I might have taken it back even though the unit worked fine and was clearly advertised on my eBay ad as used. However, I do not take kindly to threats and her statement that she would sue me did not bring out my best. So I refused to take it back since the product worked and was clearly as advertised.
The picky and litigious buyer had paid via PayPal and used her credit card. She protested to PayPay, but they could have cared less. Then she disputed the PayPal charge with her credit card company. Her credit card company naturally took her side (why hack off a loyal client when they could just oblige her at no cost to themselves?) and refunded her money from PayPal. PayPal then sent me a bill and locked down my account. Fortunately I had already transferred the money out of my PayPal account; otherwise they would have stolen it without my permission. PayPal was quite upset with me for transferring out the money. They then threatened to sue me over this (so two lawsuit threats over one sale!!!!) until I pointed out that the crazy woman still had my unit and that they had to ensure that that was returned before I would consider their problem. I also warned them that I would consult an attorney if they blemished my credit rating since I had acted properly and had shipped the unit as specified and promised (Even though I despise most litigation, I figured if they threatened me I could return the favor). Other than getting automated dunning emails from PayPal until I put them in my junk mail folder, I never heard another word from PayPal. However, in addition to locking my PayPal account, they also locked my eBay account (at this point in time, eBay had recently bought PayPal.).
While I could start a new account with either (or both) organizations, I decided to live without them. Bad service should not be rewarded with my business.
Category: Economics , Category: Personal , Category: Quests for Change
I think that if you're using PayPal its more a matter of "when" not "if" they are going to try to mess with your account. I'm suprised they've gotten away with it as long as they have.
Another friend mentioned that she finds not using Paypal too inconvienent for her online business, so she simply empties her account every few days. Sure enough, it paid off when they tried to lock down her account and found it empty!
I wonder if its a company philosophy or company policy as opposed to perhaps being a result of hiring really stupid people. (Thats not name-calling, its the realization that some people have a lower IQ than others) There are indeed really stupid people in the world. Perhaps something in the hiring process at PayPal encourages them to cluster in Customer Service?
Hmmmm. It could be almost anything. Maybe all the customer-service people are related. REALLY extra-related, if you know what I mean. Inbreeding leads to problems. Or maybe there's a lot of lead in the water near their customer service center. Or mold in the building. Exposure to black-mold can create neurological problems. Maybe its nutra-sweet. Maybe its a government experiment gone horribly wrong!
(That last part was a joke, do NOT be sending me email about the vast PayPal-IRS-CDC-Walmart conspiracy)
I too have heard of trouble with PayPal putting holds on people's PayPal accounts. But I don't have one of those (I have sellers send me the money directly and I don't deal with Ebay).
But PayPal limits how much money you can send as a buyer, per day and in total lifelong unless you become "verified".
Tell me about being "verified" by PayPal. They want banking information on me (the number of a bank account). Is that secure? Is that likely to be stolen, fiddled with by PayPal?
Is there any way they can reach into that bank account to take money?
I suppose I could always set up a small account at a new bank and give PayPal that information, but with credit cards you have (a lot) of protection. Your losses are capped. With someone having your bank account number they might try to tap that for essentially unlimited funds.
Is this a realistic concern?
I believe this is a real concern. Since I've moved a lot, I became verified with a bank account from my previous state. As soon as the litigious woman's credit card company contacted me about the incident, I transfered the money from PayPal into my out-of-state account and then closed it so the bank mailed me a check. So I don't know that PayPal would have grabbed the money out of it when we had our disagreement, but I believe they would have if they could have done so.
Does anyone else know?
I am a senior citizen and I NEVER buy anything on line and never buy anything on Ebay I won't ever put bank account or Visa information on the computer. Please don't send me anymore email on paypal as I don't want this. Remove my email address from your system. Thank you
Barbara,
My dad has similar views about putting his bank information on his computer. He actually has two computers. One for his finances (which does not have internet access so a hacker would have to be physically in his house to steal anything) and the other one for internet use. He does not put anything personal on the internet computer.
I have not sent you any emails at all. If you have received one from me, it is a spamming trick. Some spammers use legitimate email addresses (especially those like mine which are posted on my website and thus, unfortunately, also easily obtained by spammers) to send out email messages to others. If you had clicked on the link from a spammer and given out your PayPal information, the spammer would have tried to access your PayPal account and steal your money. Since you don't have a PayPal account, the spammer "merely" annoyed you and besmirched my name in the process.
I sympathize with you, but there does not (yet) seem to be anything we can do about this.
I recieved this today
February 25, 2009
VIA U.S. Mail
Casey Benedict
4505 Drayton Court
Dayton, OH 45440-1901
Re: Unauthorized Access and Use of PayPal Inc.’s Website
Dear Casey Benedict:
You were previously notified that your PayPal account(s) was permanently limited and you are prohibited from accessing any PayPal website worldwide. However, it has come to our attention that you violated this prohibition and created additional PayPal accounts. By this letter, PayPal demands that you cease and desist any and all attempts, whether now or in the future, to access any PayPal website or otherwise circumvent your limitations. Failure to heed this demand will expose you to criminal and/or civil liability.
Unauthorized access to PayPal’s website violates our User Agreement as well as various federal and state laws. For example, 47 U.S.C. §§ 1030 et seq., the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (the “CFAA”), outlaws intentionally accessing a computer used in interstate commerce without authorization. Violations of the CFAA give rise to both civil and criminal penalties. Similarly, California Penal Code Section 502 (“Section 502”) protects computer systems, such as PayPal’s, from unauthorized access. Violations of Section 502 also give rise to civil and criminal penalties.
PayPal takes seriously your continued unauthorized access to its websites. We are continuing to investigate the matter and reserve our right to turn this activity over to the authorities and/or institute litigation against you if you fail to comply with this letter. In addition to seeking injunctive relieve forcing you to stop accessing PayPal’s websites, PayPal will also seek to recover its attorneys’ fees,
costs and any other economic harm caused thereby.
This letter is not intended to be a complete statement of our position in this matter, and PayPal reserves all rights and remedies with respect to it.
Sincerely,
Megan Wetzel
PayPal Escalations Specialist
Did they ever escalate that?
Let's assume it's not a matter of circumstance, but a matter of time until someone is shut out of using PayPal. I think we all agree on that fact. Now, there are a finite number of humans on this planet. So eventually they'll run out of people to ban from their little ol' party.
So keep at it PayPal. You'll be all alone soon.
Wow that was strange. I just wrote an really long comment but after I clicked submit my
comment didn't show up. Grrrr... well I'm not writing all that over again.
Anyhow, just wanted to say fantastic blog!
Yeah, I've heard a number of horror stories about PayPal. Enough so that I was terrified when recently, in making an online purchase, I somehow accidentally signed up for a PayPal account, even though I was trying to pay by credit card instead. My intention is to wait until the merchandise arrives, make sure the transaction is complete, and then close out the PayPal account. Just in case.
As for Ebay, my one and only experience with them (buying a wristwatch from a seller in Russia) has been positive. Though a friend of mine used to sell all sorts of things on Ebay, had one experience like yours with a weird customer, and Ebay suspended his account. That was over a year ago, and despite repeated efforts he has yet to get his Ebay account reinstated. He writes them. But somehow they've got him pegged as a bad guy. Unlike, you know, the sellers who flourish on Ebay selling a little item for $10 cheap and then charging $100 for shipping.